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Author Topic: Carb cfm  (Read 1668 times)
Andy Tuttle
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« on: September 20, 2010, 05:56:55 PM »


327 engine, thinking it should end up being 350+ hp.  How big a cfm carb can I run on it?  I know you can overfuel an engine and there has to a balance with cam, lifters, valves,pistons and carb.  NOt sure how to achieve that balance.  Any help?
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
C3 Corvette Forum 68 - 82
« on: September 20, 2010, 05:56:55 PM »


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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 01:45:59 PM »


Your right the cam, heads and compression along with elevation will bear a big influence on cfm but 600-670 cfm would be in the right ball park for 350hp. Transmission will determine whether a mechanical secondary carb can be used or a vacuum secondary. I have an automatic with a vacuum secondary and run a 770 cfm on a 350ci in the 340-350hp range with 9.5:1 compression and a comp thumpr cam. I started with a 600 double pumper but she didn't like that carb, bolted on and tuned the 770 street avenger and she came to life.
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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 09:43:26 PM »


OK  sorry I didn't check this before I posted the question about what setup you would recommend in the other area.  I have an M22 Rockcrusher for my tranny (Dad was real proud of finding that one!).  Sure do appreciate your input.  I am going to have a ton of questions before it's over! What intake did you go with especially concerning the clearance issues?
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
C3 Corvette Forum 68 - 82
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 09:43:26 PM »


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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 03:41:10 AM »


Don't blame your Dad one bit, M22 are getting harder to find since guys are hanging on to them. I originally installed an Edelbrock Performer EPS intake due to hood clearance, but reading other forums I found several guys that had a Performer RPM and a few with the RPM Air Gap intakes with stock hoods. I now have the Performer RPM Air Gap with a stock hood. The hood insulator touches the air cleaner but the hood closes with no problem.

Here's a pic


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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

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TimAT
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 06:27:47 PM »


Best I can do is relate some personal experience- And I also agree with palmbeachvette-
The engine is a 350, big valve heads, little bit of a cam, and headers. Behind that is a 4 speed.
At the time, I had access to 3 different carbs- all mechanical secondary (double pumper). Started with a 650 CFM- it was awesome- up to 5000 RPM- then it fell flat- runs out of air. Went the other way to an 850- it was awesome too- from 3000 RPM up. Miserable to drive around town. Ended up with the 750- better manners around town, stayed with the game up to 7000 RPM. Still running that one. Your 327 is close enough to that 350, I'll bet it'll be around the same place with whatever carb you choose.
A good friend of mine a 383 built for his Vette- 4 speed car- and the builder included in the package a vacuum secondary carb. As soon as he got the break in on the new engine done and was able to "get it on", he found a hesitation when the secondaries opened. He tried everything he could think of, I tried everything I could think of, and could not get the hesitation out of it. I pulled that 750 DP and we put that on his 383- no more hesitation. I'd heard in the past that mechanical secondary carbs are more friendly to manual transmissions, and that seemed to prove it.
Sorry for the long winded post, but it may provide a little help.

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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 06:49:00 PM »


You hit it perfect Tim. Manual trans can run a mechanical secondary since it has the gear to get the engine up in rpm's where an automatic with a stock or smaller stall converter reacts better to a vacuum secondary (granted I'm still not a fan of them, love a good old double dumper) an auto can run a mechanical secondary with a big converter, 3500 stall or larger would work, not the easiest set up for a daily driver but I've run a 575 hp 400  pontiac Lemans with a 4500 stall and 4.10 gear on the street but it was a second car to drive on thursday nights to Steak n Shake and on Saturdays to work at the speed shop to show off parts we sold to increase sales
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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 02:46:41 PM »


Guys - this is great and is really giving me a good bit of info and direction - as well as fine tuning my wish list! Just don't tell my wife! LOL! Moer questions though too - PBVette - what a cool looking setup- thanx for including the pix!  How do you do that?  I am presuming that is a fuel pressure gauge on the feeds to the carb- what DP did you say that was? And what is that setup on your radiator hose?  Looks cool!  Also a question - have choice between at 17" and a 19" clutch fan.  Which is better?  Or should I look at going to the electric fans?  TIm - great!  Thanks for the experience!  School of hard knocks is great and if I can learn from you it will save me for the knocks I'll run into.  Another question - are you guys running a stock type fuel pump or have you gone to electric?  And somewhat unrelated, am working with my son on an '86 Camaro Z28 getting a '72 305 with a B&M t350 with 3800 stall converter.  THinking of putting a '68 Vetter 327/350 intake manifold on it with a Quadrajet. Opinions?  Need to get his done so I have room in the garage so I can work on the Vette! LOL!
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
TimAT
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 02:58:00 PM »


No idea what palmbeach is running, I used a stock pump on that 350, and I'm feeding an old school 454 LS-7 that's making some pretty good power with the stock pump too. Never had any problems but I'm not running at 6500 RPM all day either.
And by stock, I'm saying it's the factory replacement type. None of the chrome, polished, hi pressure/volume, no nothing. Plain cheap auto parts store direct replacement.
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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 06:05:26 PM »


Yes, the gauge is fuel pressure with a regulator mounted to the cylinder head and out of view along the fender is a Mallory 3140 canister fuel filter. My carb is a Holley 770 Street Avenger Vac secondary and the fuel pump is one of those chrome hi volume ones only because I needed threaded inlet and outlets to run the A/N fittings and steel lines.

The upper radiator hose is one of those metal flex pipes you cut to length, not sure why the hell I bought that but it was there and I was wandering around Pep Boys with a rewards coupon, etc, etc. lol. As far as the fan clutch I can't say i've seen a 19" fan but if it fits the bigger the better just depends on what fits in the shroud.

I had electrics on mine and still have them on my "didn't work out the way I hoped" shelf of parts. I was good around town at lower rpm's but on the highway after 15 miles she started getting over 200 approaching 210 degrees so I tried my old flex fan with a shroud and not much better but once I put the factory fan and clutch back on the car runs right at 178 at highway speeds on a hot day and cooler as the air temp comes down.

'72 305? I don't remember there being a 305 in 1972, I'm pretty sure they came out in '79 or so. If your going to run a TH350 with a 3800 stall you'll need alot more intake than what the 327 came with. I'm guessing it's an aluminum intake? not as familiar with the 327 factory intakes. I would get a new aluminum dual plane, Performer RPM or equivalent Weiand to work better with that converter. I'm hoping the engine has some compression, heads and cam if not that's way too much converter.
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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 07:00:09 PM »


Tim I really like that plain old cheap auto parts store idea!  I am seeing that it says Vette, the price goes up! LOL!  Glad to see I'm not the only one who still plans to visit the NAPA store!
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
Andy Tuttle
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Posts: 141
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 07:21:46 PM »


PAlm beach - the engine was actually orginally labeled a 307 but I understood GM got in trouble cuz they really weren't 307s but 305.  Engine has been cammed but am not sure about heads or compression.  The factory 327/350hp intake is not aluminum.  What converter would be better with that set up?  He is on a cheaper budget than I am! LOL!  So your chrome fuel pump is a hi-vol "stock on the block style" pump?  Walking around those parts stores with money or reward cards is always dangerous and leads us to do nutty things!  But it looks good with you other A/N fittings and lines.  I see in the photo you are on the original style fan but wasn't sure since I saw you with electric fans on other posts.  Good to leaarn from your trials!  Thanks you and Tim have been great! 
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 03:58:09 AM »


Oh, that I didn't know, thanks for sharing. Seen and worked on many a 307, in fact I didn't even think of that size since you rarely hear about them anymore, damn getting old stinks.

For a mild cam street, daily driver car I would look into a Saturday night special or something in the 2000-2200 rpm, no more than a 2500.

Fuel pump is stock on the block, just has 3/8" npt inlet and outlets with no return line. I think it is the jegs brand that flows 110 gph at an advertised 6 psi but was pushing close to 9 psi, hence the need for the regulator. One of those buy one thing thinking that's all you need only to find out $300 later it will work. Gotta love cars there just as bad as boats lol
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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

http://www.youtube.com/user/carissawabo?feature=mhw4

Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 12:04:38 PM »


You don't have to be getting old to forget! And from the sounds of your right foot crushing pedal Disease, you can't be too old!  WIll look for a different converter.  Now to trade off the one we got!   So to save the $300 a simple cheap parts store stock on the block fuel pump should give my 327 w a double pumper all the fuel she needs?  Maybe a chrome one so it will sun faster? HA!
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2010, 01:09:34 PM »


Yeah stock is fine.  Stock is a high volme anyway. Make sure it has the deep can on the bottom,  most are a pot metal color on the top half and the bottom is a brass color which should be about 2-3" deep.
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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

http://www.youtube.com/user/carissawabo?feature=mhw4

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