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Author Topic: To dome or not to dome?  (Read 1184 times)
Andy Tuttle
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« on: September 20, 2010, 02:45:44 PM »


OK I have a set of 12:1 dome pistons for 327 standard bore.  My block is excelllent, like new standard bore.  No prob there.  Talked with a machine shop guy who insisted that my block be bored and emphatically insisted that I forget the dome pistons and get a set of 9:1 or 10:1 max flat tops.  His reasoning is that as I want to use this as a driver, that I must use 100 or higher octane gas and that Iwon't be able to afford it and hence will never drive it.  OThers have said I can use pump 91 or 93 Octane and if necessary add octane booster.  So, let me throw it out for public opinion.  SHould I use the domes or get flat  tops? To dome or not to dome? Cheesy
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C3 Corvette Forum 68 - 82
« on: September 20, 2010, 02:45:44 PM »


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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 01:50:40 PM »


12 to 1 was streetable in the 60's when you could pull up to any station and buy 115 octane for pennies. No way you'll run 91 or 93 on that kind of compression without doing some serious head work and a computer controlled ignition with a spark knock sensor to retard the timing. The machine shop is right stay below 10 to 1 and you can run 93 and make plenty of power, 450+ with the right setup.
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Pete79
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 08:40:15 PM »


My compression is 11 to 1 on pump gas with no issues. Just has to be tuned properly
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C3 Corvette Forum 68 - 82
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 08:40:15 PM »


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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 09:25:18 PM »


How did you tune it?
My compression is 11 to 1 on pump gas with no issues. Just has to be tuned properly
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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 09:27:19 PM »


Palmbeach - What kind of setup would you recommend all the way around?
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Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 04:10:44 AM »


Palmbeach - What kind of setup would you recommend all the way around?

Wow, that's kinda hard to answer since there are so many possibilities and contributing factors. With some more info I'd be glad to make a recommendation (your bringing back some good memories to my old days as a manager with Super Shops Automotive Perforamance Center where I did this for a living Cheesy)

What I know: 327ci standard bore block, 4 spd M22

Some things we need to know:

Gear ratio?
A/C?
Cylinder heads? do you have or going to buy?
are you rebuilding or replacing the crank and rods?
Daily driver, how much daily driving?
Most importantly what are you looking for, hoping to get out of the car. It's real easy to go overboard and later wish you hadn't
Budget
Considered a Crate Engine?

There are some good top end kits out there with dyno proven horsepower which might be a good option to achieve the power range you want.

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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

http://www.youtube.com/user/carissawabo?feature=mhw4

TimAT
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 06:36:48 PM »


I'm running 12.5 compression and aluminum heads. The absolute minimum octane gas I'll use is 100, and it really likes 110. Expensive, but running the timing for best performance makes up for it. A good round of detonation from low octane gas and a broken piston would be more expensive than the gas.
If you always are in an area that 93 octane gas is available, you can run 10.5 or 11:1 compression ratios provided you get your quench distance down to the minimum and run aluminum heads, forged pistons, and watch your total ignition advance.
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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 05:14:01 PM »


Palmbeach - What kind of setup would you recommend all the way around?

Wow, that's kinda hard to answer since there are so many possibilities and contributing factors. With some more info I'd be glad to make a recommendation (your bringing back some good memories to my old days as a manager with Super Shops Automotive Perforamance Center where I did this for a living Cheesy)

What I know: 327ci standard bore block, 4 spd M22

Some things we need to know:

Gear ratio?
A/C?
Cylinder heads? do you have or going to buy?
are you rebuilding or replacing the crank and rods?
Daily driver, how much daily driving?
Most importantly what are you looking for, hoping to get out of the car. It's real easy to go overboard and later wish you hadn't
Budget
Considered a Crate Engine?

Eric
There are some good top end kits out there with dyno proven horsepower which might be a good option to achieve the power range you want.


OK here's what I am thinking and know at this point:
I am planning on A/C at this point.  I was encouraged by one Vette Rodder to eliminate the heat and A/C all together to save on cabin heat.  Comfort of A/C is nice though, and eventually we will be living in Tenn and it should be a real lus in a warmer climate.

I have aset of double hump heads, but they are not 2:02 valves, but are 64cc chambers.  They will need to be drilled for accessories.  No vaves in them at this point. 

I am planning on repacing the crank with a new one.  HAd a good one, large journal crank, but it has so much rust on it and damage from cat pee that my machine shop guy sait would cost at least $400 to build it up at the rear main seal and thrust and then turn it all down that it would be cheaper to buy a new one.  The  rods also got ruined with cat pee, but one well experienced rod buider I know said they may be salvageabe by having them bead basted (if I can find somebody out here in the middle of Iowa corn fields to do so!).  I am doubtful about it, and am anticipating buying new ones.  At this point I am anticipating new pistons and wrist pins to go with it too.

I am sure that I could put together a crate motor cheaper, but first I want a 327 (sorry, it's a thing that goes back to my '68 Camaro - my first love!) and second I  want to use as much of what Dad bought and was planning to use (I know, purely emotion and not really rational) in the build.

What am I looking for?  Well some of that is up in the air.  I want it to be "mine".  I don't want to look and be like every other Vette out there (sorry to everyone who says Vettes should be red, mone won't be.  PRobably Candy Appe Purple with gold underlay with the same gold ghost flames on top the CAP).  I don't plan to be radical, but I am open to making some minor changes, perhaps with the headights.  THought about chopping the top, but just about got myself talked out of that (and I think that's a good thing!).  Will probably lower the front end.   Engine wise, I want something I can jump in anytime of yeardrive anywhere.  I do not want to just be a parade runner!  I must be able to blow the doors off my son's Camaro and my daughter's Z28 and do so convincingy!  It's got to thump with a cam so that EVERYBODY knows it's not just show but that it goes.  And if (when!) the teens of my youth group challenge me to run against them at the local drag strip, I must be able to put down the 5.0 Mustangs! (Otherwise I'll never hear the end of it on Sundays!)  It's gotta be fun to drive!

I am not sure what the dear ratio is or how to find out. for sure.  I will get some casting numbers and run them if that helps.  I do know that it should be a stock gear, came from a '73 donor Vette.  Any hep here would be appreciated.

Budget?  What budget? :>)  Limited.  Do have some inheritance money, and the rest is off a less than 24K a year job with three kids. Don't want to overdo it, but am aso looking at this as 5 year or more project.  Took 2+ years on the pickup and want to take the time to do this right and not get rushed.  I am not oposed to used parts where applicable.  "Cheapauto parts store stuff" from NAPA or O'Rielly's is not beyond my bloodline.  It should ook and be "respectable" not show class.  And it's gotta be fun!

Well, this post is a book, and I am not sure it correctly answered your questions.  But thanks for letting me dream!
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
Palmbeachvette
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 06:09:43 PM »


Well it sounds like you have a good plan which is half the battle and the bottom end seems to be addressed. 64cc heads are a plus though I wish they were 2.02/1.6 valves but with a set of forge flat top pistons and the right head gasket you should have a static compression of 10:1 give or take a point or two.

The rear gear is part of the casting numbers on the rear end. Another easy thing to do is raise the back end of the car and put the transmission in neutral. Mark the driveshaft yoke and a reference point on the rear end housing then put a mark on the inside of one of the rear tires at the 6 o'clock position. Rotate the driveshaft countint the number of turns you make to 1 rotation of the tire and you'll be in the ball park of the rear gear. Since it came out of a '73 it will probably be a 3.08 or a 3.36 but here is a link should you find the code on the rear end

http://www.corvettec3.ca/axle.htm

Luckily time is on your side so do everything right. A strong solid bottom end equals longevity and reliability and it sounds like you have a good machine shop. I don't blame you at all for wanting to retain the 327, they are great engines with the right work done to them. I would have the heads worked. At least a 3 angle valve job, gasket match the ports and polish the combustion chamber and look into the cost of putting in bigger valves (if it can be done) depending on the cost you might find it more economical to pickup some aftermarket aluminum heads which you could always paint the same color as the engine to give the appearance of being stock or let the aluminum shine.

Once you have the heads and block ready, that would be the time to pick the camshaft. If you ended up going with different heads you may want to look into some upper end kits that are part matched with dyno results to give you a good idea of the power you should be making, nice part is someone else has done the R&D on their nickel instead of you trying different parts and combos which gets expensive quick.
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My Youtube page showing the start and current progress of my 1976 Stingray

http://www.youtube.com/user/carissawabo?feature=mhw4

toobroketoretire
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 02:07:14 AM »




Wow, that's kinda hard to answer since there are so many possibilities and contributing factors. With some more info I'd be glad to make a recommendation (your bringing back some good memories to my old days as a manager with Super Shops Automotive Perforamance Center where I did this for a living Cheesy)

What I know: 327ci standard bore block, 4 spd M22

Some things we need to know:

Gear ratio?
A/C?
Cylinder heads? do you have or going to buy?
are you rebuilding or replacing the crank and rods?
Daily driver, how much daily driving?
Most importantly what are you looking for, hoping to get out of the car. It's real easy to go overboard and later wish you hadn't
Budget
Considered a Crate Engine?

Eric
There are some good top end kits out there with dyno proven horsepower which might be a good option to achieve the power range you want.


[/quote]OK here's what I am thinking and know at this point:
I am planning on A/C at this point.  I was encouraged by one Vette Rodder to eliminate the heat and A/C all together to save on cabin heat.  Comfort of A/C is nice though, and eventually we will be living in Tenn and it should be a real lus in a warmer climate.

I have aset of double hump heads, but they are not 2:02 valves, but are 64cc chambers.  They will need to be drilled for accessories.  No vaves in them at this point. 

I am planning on repacing the crank with a new one.  HAd a good one, large journal crank, but it has so much rust on it and damage from cat pee that my machine shop guy sait would cost at least $400 to build it up at the rear main seal and thrust and then turn it all down that it would be cheaper to buy a new one.  The  rods also got ruined with cat pee, but one well experienced rod buider I know said they may be salvageabe by having them bead basted (if I can find somebody out here in the middle of Iowa corn fields to do so!).  I am doubtful about it, and am anticipating buying new ones.  At this point I am anticipating new pistons and wrist pins to go with it too.

I am sure that I could put together a crate motor cheaper, but first I want a 327 (sorry, it's a thing that goes back to my '68 Camaro - my first love!) and second I  want to use as much of what Dad bought and was planning to use (I know, purely emotion and not really rational) in the build.

What am I looking for?  Well some of that is up in the air.  I want it to be "mine".  I don't want to look and be like every other Vette out there (sorry to everyone who says Vettes should be red, mone won't be.  PRobably Candy Appe Purple with gold underlay with the same gold ghost flames on top the CAP).  I don't plan to be radical, but I am open to making some minor changes, perhaps with the headights.  THought about chopping the top, but just about got myself talked out of that (and I think that's a good thing!).  Will probably lower the front end.   Engine wise, I want something I can jump in anytime of yeardrive anywhere.  I do not want to just be a parade runner!  I must be able to blow the doors off my son's Camaro and my daughter's Z28 and do so convincingy!  It's got to thump with a cam so that EVERYBODY knows it's not just show but that it goes.  And if (when!) the teens of my youth group challenge me to run against them at the local drag strip, I must be able to put down the 5.0 Mustangs! (Otherwise I'll never hear the end of it on Sundays!)  It's gotta be fun to drive!

I am not sure what the dear ratio is or how to find out. for sure.  I will get some casting numbers and run them if that helps.  I do know that it should be a stock gear, came from a '73 donor Vette.  Any hep here would be appreciated.

Budget?  What budget? :>)  Limited.  Do have some inheritance money, and the rest is off a less than 24K a year job with three kids. Don't want to overdo it, but am aso looking at this as 5 year or more project.  Took 2+ years on the pickup and want to take the time to do this right and not get rushed.  I am not oposed to used parts where applicable.  "Cheapauto parts store stuff" from NAPA or O'Rielly's is not beyond my bloodline.  It should ook and be "respectable" not show class.  And it's gotta be fun!

Well, this post is a book, and I am not sure it correctly answered your questions.  But thanks for letting me dream!
[/quote][/quote]

Wow, that's kinda hard to answer since there are so many possibilities and contributing factors. With some more info I'd be glad to make a recommendation (your bringing back some good memories to my old days as a manager with Super Shops Automotive Perforamance Center where I did this for a living Cheesy)

What I know: 327ci standard bore block, 4 spd M22

Some things we need to know:

Gear ratio?
A/C?
Cylinder heads? do you have or going to buy?
are you rebuilding or replacing the crank and rods?
Daily driver, how much daily driving?
Most importantly what are you looking for, hoping to get out of the car. It's real easy to go overboard and later wish you hadn't
Budget
Considered a Crate Engine?

Eric
There are some good top end kits out there with dyno proven horsepower which might be a good option to achieve the power range you want.


[/quote]OK here's what I am thinking and know at this point:
I am planning on A/C at this point.  I was encouraged by one Vette Rodder to eliminate the heat and A/C all together to save on cabin heat.  Comfort of A/C is nice though, and eventually we will be living in Tenn and it should be a real lus in a warmer climate.

I have aset of double hump heads, but they are not 2:02 valves, but are 64cc chambers.  They will need to be drilled for accessories.  No vaves in them at this point. 

I am planning on repacing the crank with a new one.  HAd a good one, large journal crank, but it has so much rust on it and damage from cat pee that my machine shop guy sait would cost at least $400 to build it up at the rear main seal and thrust and then turn it all down that it would be cheaper to buy a new one.  The  rods also got ruined with cat pee, but one well experienced rod buider I know said they may be salvageabe by having them bead basted (if I can find somebody out here in the middle of Iowa corn fields to do so!).  I am doubtful about it, and am anticipating buying new ones.  At this point I am anticipating new pistons and wrist pins to go with it too.

I am sure that I could put together a crate motor cheaper, but first I want a 327 (sorry, it's a thing that goes back to my '68 Camaro - my first love!) and second I  want to use as much of what Dad bought and was planning to use (I know, purely emotion and not really rational) in the build.

What am I looking for?  Well some of that is up in the air.  I want it to be "mine".  I don't want to look and be like every other Vette out there (sorry to everyone who says Vettes should be red, mone won't be.  PRobably Candy Appe Purple with gold underlay with the same gold ghost flames on top the CAP).  I don't plan to be radical, but I am open to making some minor changes, perhaps with the headights.  THought about chopping the top, but just about got myself talked out of that (and I think that's a good thing!).  Will probably lower the front end.   Engine wise, I want something I can jump in anytime of yeardrive anywhere.  I do not want to just be a parade runner!  I must be able to blow the doors off my son's Camaro and my daughter's Z28 and do so convincingy!  It's got to thump with a cam so that EVERYBODY knows it's not just show but that it goes.  And if (when!) the teens of my youth group challenge me to run against them at the local drag strip, I must be able to put down the 5.0 Mustangs! (Otherwise I'll never hear the end of it on Sundays!)  It's gotta be fun to drive!

I am not sure what the dear ratio is or how to find out. for sure.  I will get some casting numbers and run them if that helps.  I do know that it should be a stock gear, came from a '73 donor Vette.  Any hep here would be appreciated.

Budget?  What budget? :>)  Limited.  Do have some inheritance money, and the rest is off a less than 24K a year job with three kids. Don't want to overdo it, but am aso looking at this as 5 year or more project.  Took 2+ years on the pickup and want to take the time to do this right and not get rushed.  I am not oposed to used parts where applicable.  "Cheapauto parts store stuff" from NAPA or O'Rielly's is not beyond my bloodline.  It should ook and be "respectable" not show class.  And it's gotta be fun!

Well, this post is a book, and I am not sure it correctly answered your questions.  But thanks for letting me dream!
[/quote]


The 2.02"/1.60" heads are the way to go if you're planning on revving it over 6000 rpm.  But otherwise the 1-15/16"/1.5" heads will do great.  They can only be drilled for accessories if they have the machined bosses on the ends.
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Andy Tuttle
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 08:10:59 PM »


Prolly won't go over 6grand but ya never know. Just being able too is nice.  Thanks for the tip.
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It'll run again one day!  In memory of Dad Tuttle 1933-1994 Giddy Up Go Daddy
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